From serban@bnl.gov Thu Apr 29 16:51:16 2004 Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:37:20 -0400 From: Serban Protopopescu To: Gordon Watts Cc: D0 Data Format Working Group , Greg Landsberg Subject: Re: Common root-based data format. (fwd) [ The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set. ] [ Your display is set for the "US-ASCII" character set. ] [ Some characters may be displayed incorrectly. ] Hi Greg, I think you got the wrong impression about tmb tree. We made a deliberate effort to decouple tmb tree as much as possible from D0 software. You need the D0 software to make the tmb tree root file, but to use them all you need is: root tmb_tree kinem_util Serban Gordon Watts wrote: >Hi, > I have regularly used TMBTree at 30,000 feet along with top-tree (on a >windows computer). I'm going to explore this a bit with Greg offline to >see why he is of this opinion. > > Cheers, > Gordon. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Herbert Greenlee [mailto:greenlee@fnal.gov] >Sent: Monday, April 12, 2004 12:23 PM >To: D0 Data Format Working Group >Subject: RE: Common root-based data format. (fwd) > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 12:10:21 -0400 >From: Greg Landsberg >To: 'Herbert Greenlee' >Cc: 'Jianming' >Subject: RE: Common root-based data format. > >Hi Herb, > >The effort of converging on a common root-tuple format is very important >and >the future of our physics analysis depends strongly on it. Let me share >some >of my thoughts on this, based both on my personal analysis experience >and >the Tower of Babylon of formats I am exposed to as a Deputy Physics >Coordinator. > >I believe that the TMBTree is a very nice idea and with proper support I >find it very useful analysis tool. However, I do not use TMBTree as the >"final" analysis format for a very simple reason: it carries the entire >10,000lb gorilla of the D0 code with it. What I want to have is a >straight >column-wise r-tuple that I can use "unplugged" - e.g., on my Wondows >laptop >at 30,000 feet. My personal solution to this problem was >straightforward: I >wrote a simple r-tuple maker that essentially maps the TMBTree variables >into a fixed r-tuple. This way, I process the data on clued0, apply >preselection and d0correct at the TMBTree level, and then write out my >flat >root-tuple, which I can then use anywhere I want. > >Whether this is the best possible solution or not is for your committee >to >figure out, but I do want to stress the following few features that I >find >crucial: > > (a) completeness: most of the TMB/TMBTree variables should be >mapped >in the r-tuple; some of the "derived" variables should be added on top >of >this, perhaps as additional chunks. > > (b) scalability: user could chose which chunks to keep and which >to >drop, thus effectively reducing the r-tuple size by dropping what's not >needed. > > (c) portability: the high-level format should be maximally >decoupled >from the d0 framework, so that people in remote institutions working on >different platforms could use the r-tuple for analysis, without being >tied >to a particular release, etc. Hopefully all standard methods developed >for >this r-tuple could be standalone as well, i.e. completely self-contained >in >a separate portable piece of code/library. This is, perhaps, the most >important requirement for the new format - if we fail to decouple it >from >the framework, we would lose many potential physics contributors from >remote >institutions that do not keep up-to-date software, as well as >"professors" >who do not know the framework and do not want to learn it. > >Please, feel free to share these notes with your committee! > >Hope it helps. > >Greg > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-d0-conveners@listserv.fnal.gov [mailto:owner-d0- >>conveners@listserv.fnal.gov] On Behalf Of Herbert Greenlee >>Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2004 8:37 PM >>To: d0-conveners@fnal.gov >>Cc: D0 Data Format Working Group >>Subject: Common root-based data format. >> >>Hello Conveners, >> >>As you know, the D0 Data Format Working Group has been formed to >>review analysis data formats (tuples/trees) currently being used in >> >> >D0, > > >>and to propose and develop a common root-based format. We are now in >>the information gathering stage. We are interested in your opinions. >>We are asking you, the physics group conveners, to assist our group in >>its efforts by answering the following questions. >> >>As we currently envision it, a common root format would consist of a >>centrally maintained set of tools (framework packages and executables) >> >> >for > > >>producing root files from thumbnails. We also envision having a >> >> >centrally > > >>produced and managed set of root files produced from Common Sample >> >> >Group > > >>thumbnails, stored in sam and possibly pinned on disk. Where and by >> >> >whom > > >>such common root files would be produced is net yet determined. The >>common root files should incorporate thumbnail fixes and certified >> >> >object > > >>corrections (d0correct). Common root files would be offered to the >>physics groups as an alternative format to thumbnails for doing >> >> >analysis. > > >>Thank you for giving this matter your thoughtful attention. Please >> >> >send > > >>replies to d0dfwg@fnal.gov. >> >>Here are the questions. >> >>1. What analysis data formats and analysis tools are members of your >>group currently using? >> >>2. What analysis data formats or analysis tools does your group >>recommend to its members? >> >>3. Do you encourage or discourage people to use tmb_tree? Why or why >>not? >> >>4. How does your physics group support the efforts of analyzers? >>That is, does your group provide centrally managed data sets, >>tuples/trees, or analysis tools? >> >>5. Would your group benefit from the availability of common, possibly >>centrally produced root trees? What requirements would a common root >>format have to fulfill for your group to benefit? >> >>6. If tmb_tree were chosen as the basis for a common format, what >>changes would be required to make it attractive to your group? >> >>7. Does your group develop algorithms in root? Should algorithm >>development in root be encouraged? What is the best way to allow the >>entire collaboration to benefit from algorithms developed in root? >> >>8. Is there any other information that you would like to bring to the >>attention of the Data Format Working Group? >> >>Regards, >> >>The D0 Data Format Working Group >> >>