Resent-Message-Id: <199607092005.PAA06408@d0sgi3.fnal.gov>
Resent-Date: Tue, 9 Jul 1996 15:05:40 -0500 (CDT)
Resent-From: lueking@D0GS01
Resent-To: lueking
Message-Id: <199607092004.PAA06400@d0sgi3.fnal.gov>
To: SHUPE@d0cd03, lueking@d0cd03, dhiman@d0cd03, oshima@d0cd03, snyder@d0cd03,
        adams@physics.rice.edu
cc: QZLI@fnald0, HAGOPIAN@d0cd03, greenlee@d0cd03
Subject: Dhiman's minutes for today's meeting; Thanks Dhiman!
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Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 15:04:40 CDT
From: Lee Lueking <lueking>


                Minutes of the GUI working group mtg, 9-JUL-96
                ----------------------------------------------
Attendees:
            Lee Lueking (Chair)
            Qizhong Li-Demartueau
            Sharon Hagopian
            Scott Snyder
            Nobu Oshima
            Dhiman Chakraborty (minute-taker)

    Lee called the first mtg of the group to order starting with the agenda:

1. Define (refine) our objectives
2. Examine what's available and what has already been explored by the graphics
and frames groups.
3. Establish some criteria with which to compare various options (products).
4. Further task assignments?
5. Future meeting schedule.

1.    Lee observed that the task at hand is to develop a product that
   has two important features:
- -- a point-and-click menu-driven user-interface for specific applications
- -- easy access to information from various systems, for example  any stage 
of        data processing/analysis or the online system.

    With this, he opened the table for discussions and the following thoughts 
poured in:

- --  Users should be able to customize the interface to a reasonable extent
    without having to write scripts or toolkit code (Dhiman).
- --  Submitting batch jobs should be less painful than it is with COMPACK 
(Lee).
- --  A prototype/pilot project should be undertaken to get a feel for the
    interplay between the applications and the user interface (Sharon).  The
    procedure for library releases (perhaps with the recently adopted CVS for
    code-management) could be a candidate for a first exercise (Dhiman).
- --  Interactive graphics for such things as identifying tracks, ets., in     
	      applications like the event display should be included. (Sharon) We 
need          input from the graphics group. 

2+3.    There are several candidates for the role of the scripting language.
    Scott and Fritz are local experts on Tcl/Tk.  Sharon pointed out that
    some people at FSU have a couple of years' experience on this from
    another experiment.  Scott remarked that while Tcl is easy to learn, its
    power is likely to prove inadequate for our purpose.  He recommends
    Python/Tk instead.  Lee asked if a larger the user-base of Perl makes it 
    a better candidate than Python.  In reply Scott said that code maintenance
    will be considerably more difficult with Perl.  Dhiman asked if its
    web-friendliness would make Java a better candidate.  Scott replied that
    interfacing it with non-Java code could be a problem. 
        Lee suggested that everybody in the group fiddle with Tcl/Tk on SGI
    for some hands-on experience.  He asked Scott about the online experience,
    e.g. whether Visual Basic on Windows NT is being tried there.  Scott said
    that there's been no sweeping decision on that in the online group yet; at
    this point only the trigger system has been decided run on WNT.  Sharon
    emphasized the role of a thin layer to make the system more flexible in
    terms of language-OS match.
        Lee invited thoughts on communication between the GUI backplane and
    application (bus+protocol).  Dhiman volunteered to look at how this is
    done in PAW++/KUIP.
        Nobu shared some thoughts from the graphics group's experiences.  He
    noted that the "tailor and save" options had proven to be particularly
    important.
        The question of which graphics driver to use also came up (Lee).  GL
    and open-GL were mentioned, but Scott named several alternatives, mostly
    freeware products.  He agreed to look into this.
        Suggestions of WWW-access to applications to some degree (Dhiman),
    a graphics demo by-and-for the group members (Qizhong) and setting up a
    web page (Lee) were generally accepted.

4.      Task assignments:
    -- Study of PAW++/KUIP (Dhiman)
    -- Shopping for a driver (Scott)
    -- Evaluation of options: compile existing knowledge+ideas and hunt for
       more (everybody)
    -- Look for Java expertise (Lee)

5.      Meetings will be biweekly, the tentative date for the next one being
    July 25 (thu) 1030 or 1530 hrs.  The goal is to come up with a
    recommendation by the time of the next collaboration meeting.

------- End of Forwarded Message